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Wednesday, October 3, 2012

Arguments behind SISTAR's alleged digital chart manipulation


After going back and reading the "other side", so to speak, in depth, I realized that the argument doesn't sound as strong as I initially thought it was. Searching about the issue on Naver gives you back about ~10 topics calling out SISTAR and exactly three posts defending them, one of which is just an opinionated speel so I'll be not including.

Skip the first part if you're already familiar with the issue.

-

I'm sure you can google the topic to find translations, but the gist of it basically is that SBS's 'One Night in TV Entertainment' ran a report about companies buying out 'brokers' mostly running their server from China to manipulate digital music charts.


For $100,000 USD at minimum, these brokers will use hundreds of thousands of IDs they've registered on these music websites and download the songs of the artists they're working for. In order to not make it suspicious, they'll go slowly and work with a group's debut. For example, they'll launch the group's debut album into the top 20, their next mini-album into the top 10, and finally their next comeback with a chart ranking win.


The anonymous broker interviewed on the show mentioned that he recently worked with a rookie girl group to manipulate the charts for them, which eventually earned them a win on 'Inkigayo'.

The conditions he named basically were:

1. Female artist that won #1 on Inkigayo this year
2. They've been involved in this manipulation since debut
3. Most of their digital downloads were from thousands of people in the early morning
4. The dominant age group was those in their 40s~50s



[IU]

[2NE1]

[SNSD]

Netizens narrowed it down to the Wonder Girls, miss A, T-ara, SISTAR, and f(x) as the girl groups who recently won a trophy on a music program. Wonder Girls was dropped since they haven't been promoting, miss A was dropped because they won a trophy immediately with their debut, T-ara was dropped because they've already won several trophies, and f(x) was dropped because they won a trophy last year. 



That left SISTAR. Their numbers showed that there were an overly large amount of search requests around the time they won, which all dropped a few weeks after they won. Most of their searches came from males in their 40s and 50s. In comparison, other girl groups showed steady search graphs with most of their searches coming from women in their teens and 20s.


Hello Venus shows a similar graph style to SISTAR but they never won anything so they were dropped as well.

-

Now what the other side is arguing is basically that these charts are unreliable and there is a chance for technical error.

Yeah, compared to those popular artists, SISTAR's graph definitely looks off and suspicious, but this side argues that there are just as many other artists (all of whom ranked high on digital charts) that don't have the company/money/power to hire these broker services that have graphs looking just as messed up as SISTAR's.

[Lee Ha Yi] 
 
[Run to You]

[Illa Ila]
 
 
[Park Ji Min]

The argument is that Lee Ha Yi and Park Ji Min are both very popular in Korea through their audition programs so how would you explain their messed up graphs in comparison to their ranks (they didn't have companies at the time so a company couldn't have bought them a broker service). For further reference, Lee Ha Yi was ranked 7th at the time of the graph's screencap.

How would the "Run to You" graph be explained as well? The song was released in the year 2000 so why would there be a sudden jump in searches on July 24th? You can't say that LEDApple, who has a Swing version under the same title, bought a broker service for it because LEDApple walked away with miserable results on the charts, and it wouldn't make sense for DJ DOC either since they haven't promoted in years.

Another point is that these graphs only show search trends. Just because someone searched their names on the music sites does not mean they bought their music, and just because someone bought their music does not mean they searched their names to find it, which leaves a lot of room for technical errors on these graphs.

The final argument is that SISTAR's achievements were consistent across the board on not only Melon, but other popular digital charts as well for a very long period of time. Netizens are arguing that Starship Entertainment couldn't have possibly afforded the broker service for each of these charts at the length of time in which they were ranked considering the costs.

-

Source: (1) (2) (3)

-

Again, there is no clear answer. The overwhelming majority believe that SISTAR did indeed manipulate the charts through these broker services, while the minority argue the points listed above.

-

80 comments:

  1. I work in the music industry and can tell you that chart manipulation has been going on for decades and is nothing new. In my town there's a chart that people think is really important but in reality you can just buy your way onto it and I know people who did just that. Nobody should pay charts any mind in the first place. Record companies see them as a promotional tool, not a competition. Korean netizens' probing into this issue just shows their naivety, an industry insider just looks at this and goes "...so?". It's like starting an investigation to prove that grass is green.

    ReplyDelete
  2. I agree that both sides present good arguments but if the anonymous broker is to be believed, then by process of elimination, SISTAR's management did manipulate charts.

    Sure, SISTAR's stats are not the only ones that are unusual but I think groups that have mainstream popularity will have graphs that show more consistency. The stats of singers that SISTAR's defenders pointed out are for lesser known artists and it's normal that their popularity will vary dramatically across time and demographics. Think about 1 oz of water and how much it would affect a shot glass versus an ocean.

    ReplyDelete
  3. can't believe a lot of women in their 40s and men in 50s like SISTAR songs :S
    Something is totally weird there.

    ReplyDelete
  4. http://forums.allkpop.com/threads/oh-hell-naw-chinese-elfs-caught-stealing-korean-id.15134/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. sm don't need to do this kind of stuff, because their fans have already did it for them. ugh. smtown is indeed a cult.

      Delete
    2. This was for mnet award thingy if im not mistaken.... But they don't use it to manipulate bulk buy suju digital chart.... Yeah their obssesion to make suju win award is crazy at that time

      Delete
    3. urgh. why is there someone who will bring in other groups to defend their idols. This is not the way to defend. We need evidence evidence evidence, even if another group is guilty, so? your bias group is still guilty. It doesn't change a thing.
      SM don't need chart manipulation for SUJU. They are one of the leaders of the hallyu wave. Observe in an unbiased POV . You know who are the more popular Kpop groups.

      Delete
    4. I knew it, elf's are the cancer of oppose society they should be exterminated. They even stole old people's id number to mass vote for their oppas. Petty creatures.

      Delete
  5. "can't believe a lot of women in their 40s and men in 50s like SISTAR songs :S Something is totally weird there."

    I would believe it, k-netizens are mostly young and arrogant and think nobody likes their music apart from them. WRONG. Click on some of the more popular Sistar YouTube videos and click "show statistics". You will see similar trends.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Older audiences like Sistar because of the high quality signing voices, more mature music and also the more "mature" appearance of the girls if you get my drift. Netizens get it wrong as usual.

    ReplyDelete
  7. I think the likelihood of company using chart manipulations would decrease the larger the company becomes.

    Since they will under more scrutiny from the public, as for publicly listed companies such as YGE and SME their financial transactions are audited yearly, so it would be difficult to explain where $100K would have gone.

    I do hope it isn't Sistar though.

    ReplyDelete
  8. "they'll launch the group's debut album into the top 20, their next mini-album into the top 10, and finally their next comeback with a chart ranking win."

    This is the literal translation? No wrong about it? On about the releasing a debut album and then a next album right? No mistake? Just making sure because except SISTAR were releasing 3 single albums during their debut year before they could have released a full album right after the next year.
    This should be a keypoint too because I don't recall Push Push ever charting as high as in the top 20 unless show me receipts of screencap on the chart ranking. iirc, Push Push was moderately successful because the dance was so parody-able. And their next release right after that was Shady Girl and it wasn't a mini album but also a single album with only 3 songs in it. Ehhh

    ReplyDelete
  9. ^except digital single album, single album, mini-album are all essentially 'album.'

    ReplyDelete
  10. ^
    Except not. You can't say digital single album is same as mini album because the former is only released digitally and minis have lot more songs than a single album essentially.

    Unless the broker that revealed this information was all specific with the hints given out, this point can still be questioned and used as a counterattack keypoint on this manipulation accusation.

    ReplyDelete
  11. sistar popularity is still questionable for me. it's no secret that most of those ahjussi had fetish for aegyo, innocent, pure, child-like thing.

    ReplyDelete
  12. manipulating digital charts is easier because of the so-called 'brokers' and relatively cheaper - digital songs cost a lot less than physical copies.

    anyway why can't these 'nobodies' ie variety show contestants be implicated in chart manipulation too? even if it's not them, or their companies (because they did not have any at the time) then it could have been the producers of the shows they were on - manipulating charts give attention to contestants which give attention to the shows.

    ReplyDelete
  13. If you're talking about their "alone" comeback, then I agree. I remember looking at the views on the mv around the time the song came out. Then, later, when I noticed that the song was doing so well on the charts and charting high even though it was released a while ago, I went back to the mv, and it had barely gone up in views. Most of the time, when the song is doing so well, the views on the mv are really high. I didn't even like alone anyway.

    ReplyDelete
  14. ^
    Because they need your opinion approval for a song to do well. Okay.

    You are contradicting yourself though "when I noticed that the song was doing so well on the charts and charting high even though it was released a while ago, I went back to the mv, and it had barely gone up in views"
    Okay, so when the song did well, mv views didn't go up.

    "Most of the time, when the song is doing so well, the views on the mv are really high. I didn't even like alone anyway."
    but didn't you say that the song was doing well yet it didn't garner much views and now you go that the views went high. Which is it Sherlock, make up your mind.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Wow. Okay. I NEVER said that my opinion had anything to do with the success of the song. I said "I didn't like the song ANYWAY".
      AND that's EXACTLY why I'm saying the song's success is suspicious. Songs that do well on charts usually have go up in views, but the sister mv didn't. Plus their fan cafe numbers are not very high.
      Seriously, learn to read correctly, before I have to STRESS every single word for you.

      Delete
    2. Wow you obviously didn't check themv views because the views were stacking up during the few days it released. That's the time period where the views gain the highest because people were checking it out and as days progressed more and more people watched it while it was hot. You are saying when they won their views didn't go up anything? That's even more of a bluff because it did hence why the Alone mc is their 3rd highest viewed mc and Korea's first on the first half of youtube (you can tootle that source)

      Just so you KNOW their fancafe numbers were in the 8thousand members before Alone, after that they basically gained the same number of members they had before after ALone and Loving U. And this is always repeated about their random and physical sales that they were never good and it's only really after Alone that they started to pick it up.

      Now that you know this you may be more knowledgeable about theo situation without being falsely uninformed.

      Delete
    3. There are typos but you can understand it unless you are not well literate.

      Delete
  15. sistar will always be questionable since they have relatively high digital rankings implying general public popularity and yet it seems their so-called popularity is unsubstantial.

    chart manipulations would give attention, then recognition, then popularity. when sistar were given attention for being digital sellers, they got in variety shows and cfs later on. if sistar have mainstream popularity now then why do their charts differ a lot from snsd, iu, 2ne1 who are also mainstream popular in korea? sistar's activities are a lot similar to said popular artists than the 'other' high digital sellers presented above.

    ReplyDelete
  16. I think i smell something fishy?

    ReplyDelete
  17. ^why are you even so pre-occupied if it's digital single album, single album, mini-album, or album anyway? digital sales is counted by PER song - in which the most important is usually the title track.

    ReplyDelete
  18. So there are a lot of loopholes about the so defined "unproven" accusations.
    SISTAR has a lot of uncle fans and even the music videos have a lot of views range from that age group (actually it's also quite common for other girl groups I'll leave it at that).

    ReplyDelete
  19. However the argument that the people believe that they did manipulate, do they insist on the point that SISTAR's popularity this year with Alone and Loving U is not real but just all fake hype? Point 1. Or the second point that they are indeed popular but only achieve this point through cheating?
    Point 1 is already debunked because their popularity is real. They are really popular and an testament to that is the Forbes poll ranking including the fan votes that shows that all the members ranked in the top 100. Their songs particularly with Loving U that it still managed to rank in top 10 and was just out of it a few weeks ago. Wow from July up to September charting, can they keep up with the cheating expenses up for that long? Oh sure maybe they can waste all the earned CF money they have been gaining since endorsing a lot of deals this year. Sure that will do because they will have enough to keep their label mate group Boyfriend from disbanding.

    So I believe the second point is the one people are grabbing onto, that they only became this popular through manipulations.
    The point about the search requests, if they won wouldn't that lead to a lot of searches about the group won? I don't get how that is unusual. SISTAR is a sexy group that has a lot of male fans. Other than that it seem this is the only "strong" point that they can hold to supporting the accusations because they can poke that it's just SISTAR who has this graph pattern trend and doesn't occur to other popular girl groups. Sure.

    Last paragraph should be a strong counterattack point in favor of SISTAR's side because it's true that it's not only on Melon that their songs has charted well because that's also another belief these netizens believe that SISTAR cheated. That Starship also paid Melon for their songs to keep afloat high on charts. Oh sure, they can also pay lots and lots for their chart placement on other charts too. Yeah, because they have that much money they would have done it way before. Like I said before both Alone and Loving U were still ranking not only on Melon but also seen on Mnet, especially Loving U kept on the top 10 for so long after their promotions ended. Because they can also pay the dues for the songs charting after a couple of months. Sure. Just to take down a rising group that has took a lot of people by surprise on their explosive popularity.

    I know a lot of people has been "hating" SISTAR like along the lines of bringing up this manipulation accusation when it talks about SISTAR's popularity this year to discredit it. But you people can chill off and stop riding that hating dick on SISTAR because at the end of the day this digital chart manipulation is not proven true and there are points that can be argued back. Just like when 4minute have been accused of buying back their physical albums and people brought up all these chart patterns and supposedly on the day before the music program days, the albums will be selling thousands of copies. Then right after it ends it will be back to selling in the lower hundreds. While it can still be argue back that that's not a strong argument that this is true happening because Hyuna Bubble Pop was a viral hit and Troublemaker duo was a huge hit, same situational points can be argued back. One thing is for sure though. SISTAR is now one of the top girl groups and deal with it if you don't like it.
    I will wait for the real test on their next comeback if they are able to do as great with these 2 comebacks this year if they don't netizens will have more of their "proofs" to attack SISTAR. However even if they do as well, they will continue on with the manipulation accusations because they can't believe that an underdog group like SISTAR were able to do this well on charts because nothing can satisfy their always questioning minds.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The top 100 idol poll is GALLUP poll + fan votes..... Not forbes....

      Delete
  20. "why are you even so pre-occupied if it's digital single album, single album, mini-album, or album anyway? digital sales is counted by PER song - in which the most important is usually the title track."

    Because just as the same as the pro-manipulation accusations people that tightly hold on to one point to believe that this is true, I was pointing this keypoint too. The songs on mini albums, full albums, single albums etc are both released physically and digitally exception is when it's called digital single album that is when it's only released digitally. The title track that charts on charts and what you say their digital sales counted still come from the albums.

    Either the broker was specific on giving out the hints that the group he worked with has released an album and then a mini-album and if that's what he literally meant then I can counterattack that SISTAR didn't even have a firt mini album until Alone. They were releasing singles. Get the point.

    ReplyDelete
  21. ^why are sistar fans so quick to give 'alone' and 'loving you' promotions as "proof" of sistar's popularity? or that sistar has many 'ahjussi' fans as an excuse?

    snsd and iu are also popular and have many 'ahjusshi' fans too - care to explain why their graphs differ that much still?

    it's just weird that sistar is said to be popular, is a high digital sellers, active in korea compared to a lot of other (sunbae as well as nugu) groups and artists and yet somehow this 'popularity' is not tangible...

    ReplyDelete
  22. Sistar didn't do well from debut though... Think about girl groups who started out successful, and mainly rely on digital singles. I'd say it would be much easier for larger companies considering they could just lump it with "promotion money"

    ReplyDelete
  23. ^^"For example, they'll launch the group's debut album into the top 20, their next mini-album into the top 10, and finally their next comeback with a chart ranking win."

    "The conditions he named basically were:

    1. Female artist that won #1 on Inkigayo this year
    2. They've been involved in this manipulation since debut
    3. Most of their digital downloads were from thousands of people in the early morning
    4. The dominant age group was those in their 40s~50s"

    read and comprehend. both statement could be talking about different situations, and could also be about the same group.
    ~album, mini-album, next comeback
    ~since debut

    ReplyDelete
  24. ^
    Because Alone and Loving U were the songs that blew them up in popularity duhhh. Sure if the company had lot of money to buy out chart ranking, they can keep both songs still charting after months of promotion ending? Loving U had such a long streak of charting in the top 10 even after a couple of months until it release.

    Adding to the varieties they were in and lot of CFs they snagged that shouldn't be enough proof for you people no?

    They were only really active this year because last year they basically made 1.5 comebacks (SISTAR19 and So Cool) so that's why their explosive popularity just started this year after Alone. You feeling that this popularity is not tangible is more of a prejudiced belief on the group because especially a lot of international fans don't even know the real measure of most groups' popularity in Korea because you don't live in that country. So there are certain groups that are underestimated.

    I am holding to this persistent belief that SISTAR are indeed popular because I know that their songs has been played a lot in Korea since Alone wins. My penpal living in Korea keeps telling me that and that's not only her but I hear from other people in Korea too. So that's why I strongly belief that their songs are popular. International fans can judge more on song popularity because they can't witness the song playings.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Awe, thanks for taking time to copy and paste for me dear. But it doesn't change my mind.

    He could also be naming different groups because it's not just one that has done this, I assure you. Either way, my opinion remains the same.

    Maybe you should go find more info to copy and paste so I can read and comprehend ;)

    ReplyDelete
  26. "1. Female artist that won #1 on Inkigayo this year
    2. They've been involved in this manipulation since debut
    3. Most of their digital downloads were from thousands of people in the early morning
    4. The dominant age group was those in their 40s~50s"

    -Conditions he named


    More specific hints:
    ^^"For example, they'll launch the group's debut album into the top 20, their next mini-album into the top 10, and finally their next comeback with a chart ranking win."

    Example not applicable to SISTAR's first few releases.


    The broker listed the conditions he worked with the certain group, and named a specific point on about how he wanted to distribute the manipulation subtly with the group's releases.

    -Try to understand this point.

    ReplyDelete
  27. I wonder if the girls are aware of this "scandal". If they do they must know that they have a lot of haters that are closely watching them behind their backs on the moves they make that they find questionable, that they will unleash their bashing attacks. I will be looking this through a positive lens that this netizen hate can make the group stronger and work even harder to proove their hard earned success they have been working on since debut.

    I belief that they didn't do this accusation, no I'm not delusional, if you can call me that so I can call you people who are insisting on spreading this accusation as pressed haters on their success this year.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Alone and Loving You's time on the charts is what's creating suspicion, the songs are nothing special; they are Ok but nothing groundbreaking, yet they charted more than any other group (which should indicate they are popular).

    However, if a female group is able to keep a song that high in the digital charts, physical albums sale should not be affected by the notion of "male groups only do well with physical and female groups only do well in digital", and they should be equivalent physical sales as IU and SNSD, yet their numbers are only that of rookie girl groups.

    ReplyDelete
  29. ^'chart manipulations from debut' implies they are trying hard to get their name out there - attention, recognition, popularity. their recent releases is not just proof of their popularity, it can also be used for argument that it is a result of their 'chart manipulations from debut.' get it?

    sistar had a good digital ranking record since debut - that is why netizens are singling them out as the group in question. most nugu groups debuting and some even popular groups (in fandom, not mainstream) would rank outside top 50, some even out of top 100.

    popularity in korea IS tangible. there are groups that have fandoms popularity and there are groups that have mainstream popularity in korea. snsd and iu have both. super junior, shinee, dbsk like most idol groups have fandoms. 2pm have more or less mainstream popularity judging by their diverse cf activities - not sure now since they haven't been active as a group in korea lately, but a few years back the group was one of the most popular boy groups in korea.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Lets wait gallup poll for the popular artist in 2012, if sistar made on the list, we can see which age group they popular with... If sistar popular with 40s and 50s like the chart then its true...

    ReplyDelete
  31. @ 11:07 PM

    Larger companies are under more scrutiny from the public and other large companies, if there was anything dodgy it would be dug up immediately to try and bring them down. Whereas small companies can fly under the radar since they aren't seen as threat.

    ReplyDelete
  32. ^^
    "1. Female artist that won #1 on Inkigayo this year
    2. They've been involved in this manipulation since debut
    3. Most of their digital downloads were from thousands of people in the early morning
    4. The dominant age group was those in their 40s~50s"

    -> since debut

    ^^"For example, they'll launch the group's debut album into the top 20, their next mini-album into the top 10, and finally their next comeback with a chart ranking win."

    -> debut album (could be 'so cool'), mini-album (could be 'alone'), next comeback (could be 'loving u')

    there was no statement talking about the group's debut album as their FIRST release ever. for example, snsd's debut single is "into the new world" and their debut album is "girl's generation." likewise, sistar's debut single is "push, push" while their debut album is "so cool."

    ReplyDelete
  33. "However, if a female group is able to keep a song that high in the digital charts, physical albums sale should not be affected by the notion of "male groups only do well with physical and female groups only do well in digital", and they should be equivalent physical sales as IU and SNSD, yet their numbers are only that of rookie girl groups."

    Refer to Anon@11:27PM

    Because not every group has both of digital and physical areas. Basically groups like Big Bang, 2NE1, SNSD and probably a few more have both areas while it's widely known that boy groups have the fandom part meaning the high physical album sales. While girl groups have the public hence high digital sales. Why is that a set belief? Well the most used reason is that boy groups can mostly appeal to fangirls and teenage girls can come in bulks and are more fanatical about their oppas more willing to buy lot of albums, even buying like 10 copies or even more. While girl groups appease to a larger demographic both males and females but it's more on their songs being liked, they have harder time building up the fandom.

    Come on, if you are not new to k-pop you must know this set wide belief because if not then what you said is very k-poppper amateur.


    Also people must learn about opinions because just because you don't like their songs and think they are just ok enough that it shouldn't be charting so well, does not mean it will. Learn this, be accustomed to be open-minded dear.

    And people should note that it's just THIS year that they got this popular. It's both Alone and Loving U that won them this success which is why their rising popularity basically just started this year. Their physical sales were never good, they came from a small company and were releasing single albums that sold in around 4k-5k copies. It wasn't after that that they managed to finally release a legit album length, that is their first full length album and it sold 15k copies. With Alone and Loving U is when they started picking up with their sales both selling around 16k and So Cool boosted up its sales to 25k this year.

    ReplyDelete
  34. ^ this is a possible scenario if in both instances, he's talking about the same group ie sistar.

    it is also possible that in both instances, he's talking about entirely two different groups - one of which is sistar, or none of which is sitar.

    actually things could go either way, bottom line is there are a lot of possibilities.

    ReplyDelete
  35. ^^
    "1. Female artist that won #1 on Inkigayo this year
    2. They've been involved in this manipulation since debut
    3. Most of their digital downloads were from thousands of people in the early morning
    4. The dominant age group was those in their 40s~50s"

    -> since debut

    ^^"For example, they'll launch the group's debut album into the top 20, their next mini-album into the top 10, and finally their next comeback with a chart ranking win."

    -> debut album (could be 'so cool'), mini-album (could be 'alone'), next comeback (could be 'loving u')

    there was no statement talking about the group's debut album as their FIRST release ever. for example, snsd's debut single is "into the new world" and their debut album is "girl's generation." likewise, sistar's debut single is "push, push" while their debut album is "so cool."

    Debut album being considered only a full album?
    Because SNSD debuted with a single, they didn't release an album accompanied with it (that is can be a single, mini, or full album) until later on with a full album. SISTAR debuted with a single album, that's their first album released hence why I picked on it.

    If we have to go by what you mean, So Cool being the debut album ranking in the top 20 the next release is indeed their mini-album Alone.
    Now that can work well with the accusation, except Alone was their chart ranking win super hit song and next after that is a repack album. So no, SISTAR's releases don't really fit with this specific hint. =/

    ReplyDelete
  36. except sistar's physical sales is like rookie groups which does not make sense given their so-called 'popularity.' if not snsd or iu level, then around wonder girls at most.

    not sure if these sales are up to date, but
    sistar
    album so cool - 25,000
    mini-album alone - 16,000
    mini-album loving u - 15,000

    wonder girls
    album wonder world - 35,000
    mini-album wonder party - 26,000

    ReplyDelete
  37. ^
    miss A have super great digital sales but their physicals sales are also lackluster. Proof that despite high digital sales it doesn't correspond well to physical sales because just a few groups can have both areas while a majority have either the digital sales only or the physical sales only. So to that person, brush up on your kpop skills.

    ReplyDelete
  38. "for example" is not exactly a condition, it is to show the process of HOW they do things, okay?

    you were harping on the fact that sistar's first mini-album is alone which is not a debut release therefore it is why it can't be them - so a possible scenario that it could be them is given to you.

    do you really think that the 'broker' would give the exact type of release and chart manipulations they did with their release in addition to the conditions they gave? their business relies on companies/groups/artists that do chart manipulations...

    ReplyDelete
  39. ^except miss a and sistar have different levels of popularity in korea especially now... mainstream popularity implies there are casual fans (general public fans and not fandom fans) who help increase sales.

    ReplyDelete
  40. miss a
    single bat but good - 17,000
    single step up - 8,000
    album a class - 55,000
    mini-album touch - 30,000

    ReplyDelete
  41. For example is the way they did the things with the group they worked with.

    The broker went on with how he/she did it with group on their releases. That's why SISTAR's releases don't match with the example he has given. Since the netizens singled SISTAR out as to they must have been the one the broker worked with. All the other girl groups are supposedly brought out because they don't fit. Which why I am persisting why this detail can't fit SISTAR.

    Of course the broker won't be giving out all the details but it's this specific one that he give out about, hence why I am picking on it.

    ReplyDelete
  42. sistar is indeed popular currently, whether they bought chart or not... they're still popular. buying chart is nothing new... idk why people get so worked up over this, and idk why fans make a big deal over trivial things like this.

    ReplyDelete
  43. ^no, "for example" is the process of HOW they do things.

    other groups were eliminated based on the 'conditions' he gave.

    "Netizens narrowed it down to the Wonder Girls, miss A, T-ara, SISTAR, and f(x) as the girl groups who recently won a trophy on a music program. Wonder Girls was dropped since they haven't been promoting, miss A was dropped because they won a trophy immediately with their debut, T-ara was dropped because they've already won several trophies, and f(x) was dropped because they won a trophy last year."

    "Hello Venus shows a similar graph style to SISTAR but they never won anything so they were dropped as well."

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  44. "except miss a and sistar have different levels of popularity in korea especially now..."

    Different levels of popularity if meaning Suzy because other than that their ranking are pretty much equal since SISTAR blew up with Alone. miss A were so ahead of SISTAR during their debut days but now it's different when Suzy is basically all what Korea cares about in the group and miss A's last comeback was above average at best results.


    "mainstream popularity implies there are casual fans (general public fans and not fandom fans) who help increase sales."
    Specify on this point? Because yes general public does increase sales and that's usually the digital sales so of course the general public can transform into a full fan of the group to buy out their sales. But what is it so hard to get that SISTAR's physicals were never good and Alone and Loving U were really the beginning on their popularity why I said their physical sales are starting to pick up from being abysmal to improving now.

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  45. The top 100 idol poll is GALLUP poll + fan votes..... Not forbes....
    Yes the Gallup, my bad unno why I mistakenly switched out the name. The poll was released by Mnet a while ago which included their fan votes on their site and recently released by tVN again so it should be released more and more by other medias.

    Point is, both Hyorin and Bora ranked in the top 30 while their overlooked magnae Dasom managed to rank somewhere in the the 50 something place. All members made it to the poll.
    This supports well their popularity this year if even when people thought SISTAR was a mix of only Hyorin and Bora when the other 2 used to be unknowns ranked in too. People need to check on their outdated labeling.

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  46. well there r more crappy songs that get #1 on charts so i think its posible for SISTAR to be #1 with alone and loving U..
    Anyway Most companies do this chart manipulation,even large companies.. SM YG YJP .. and as far as i know SISTAR became popular after the SISTAR19 debut. they got more recognition then ALONE came and it was a big hit.. Yes probably starship manipulated the charts but i dont think Starship can afford to manipulate the charts for that long specially cause they need the money for that other band boyfriend.. yes Kwill and SISTAR starship moneymakers but still they dont get enough money to manipulate the charts... anyway i dont give a damn if they manipulated the charts or not i love SISTARS songs and im not the kind of girl that loves a group just cause they r famous so yeah

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  47. and sistar's popularity is said to be attributed to chart manipulations... so what's ypur point?

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  48. I do believe there are groups that bought their way onto charts but to point out Sistar are the only ones its not fair.. Im not a hardcore fan or anything I just like a few songs -and Hyorin's voice- but I dont understand why is it so weird that people in ther 40's, 50's like them... their voices are good and they have a mature, sexy style not the childish aegyo filled concepts...
    the buying albums is just publicity because when groups win awards they get all sorts of attention including cf deals, where the real money is. plus, when groups win people are all like "ohh who are they? i must listen to know what im missing" and people end up buying the songs too.

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  49. I'm curious as to the constant bashing on SISTAR about their "tangible" popularity by these netizens, their hate is more directed towards their association with Brave Brothers? Because I know the guy is hated because of his delinquent track record, he went to jail once when he was younger but said that he truly looked upon it and changed for the better. If that's the case I'm glad they are breaking off from him and started working with Duble Sidekick. I hope they can hire him as their in-house producer <3

    Whatever, even so I believe SISTAR and Starship didn't do anything dirty

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  50. Are the charts depicting an averaging of several days or just the first day sales?

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  51. No wonder... When I first heard Alone, I thought it was such a boring song (decent, but not a strong track to put out as a single). It was really shocking that of all their songs, that was the one.. But whatever they seem like hard-working girls who deserve the attention and success..

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  52. IMO it is possible. People saying Sistar had almost no popularity until their recent comeback.. that's a lie hahah. They along with Secret (and Miss A) were the strongest female group debuts of 2010. And it's true that their popularity grew little by little over time. Their songs charted consistently better and better as time passed until they eventually passed Secret. Even Bling Bling which wasn't even that popular charted really well. Also an important info was totally omitted which is that Brave Brothers are pretty infamous for chart manips. Anyway, I'm not saying all of their popularity is constructed but a very good chunk is. They got popular by making believe that they were popular. That's OK. But the next part is to build a consistent fanbase to rely on or else one scandal could totally blow you out of the water (see: T-error).

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    Replies
    1. First of all Secret debuted in 2009. Second what Bling Bling? Brave Brothers didn't produce any song with that name. Dalshabet has a song with that name but they are a group from E-tribe. Get your facts right before wanting to put up a legit point.

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  53. I really don't think Starship Entertainment has enough money to do this broker thing. It takes thousands and thousands of dollars just to manipulate the charts ONCE, and all Starship has is Sistar, Boyfriend, and K.will to make them money.

    It's not like Starship has some spare millions to keep Sistar high up on the charts each time they make a comeback. And considering how long Alone and Loving U were topping the charts (plus Ma Boy and So Cool did well last year so they would have to "pay" for that too), Starship could've easily gone bankrupt trying to manipulate everything for so long.

    I can't see how Starship could afford to do this stuff and still keep their small company running. They obviously have staff to pay, idols + trainees to feed, MVs and tons of other expenses to pay for, etc. So with all that taken into account, it's pretty clear that these accusations against Sistar don't really check out.

    Sistar has catchy songs and talented members (especially Hyorin), so I think they're success and rising popularity is actually legit.

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  54. "Also an important info was totally omitted which is that Brave Brothers are pretty infamous for chart manips."

    --

    Is there actual proof of this? And no, rumors don't count as legit proof :P

    Chart manipulation can't be this controversial, yet Brave Bros. (who you suggest does this often) never gets in trouble for it.

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  55. My friend who is from Seoul told me that their popularity went up after MaBoy, even she likes them and she dislikes kpop, she listens to ballads the most. he said that their latest songs are played often and although most think that Hyorin is not good looking all agree she's a
    the best idol singer.

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  56. Sistar getting recognized after Ma Boy right?! And when Hyorin in immortal songs?! Since then they hv a lot uncle fans + they doing so many variety shows
    They hv popularity on their hands

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  57. Whoa. Thanks for making this post. Must have taken you forever. Will definitely have to read through it all later.

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  58. If you look at the search stats, it shows 2NE1, IU, SNSD etc, but not SISTAR. The stats are for their song title, Alone/nahonja! Of course people won't search a song title months after it won, but searching for artists would still happen.

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  59. That search graph shows the searches from April to July. Alone released in April and it got the increase spurt in searches while it was still hot and winning awards lead more to it too. Then after a few months people won't be searching up as much how is that unusual? Plus you said, that search of the group doesn't necessarily mean the song's sales/charting so mehhhh using this as a proof that they manipulated is still not convincing/strong. However, the believers or rather haters would make it so because they are strongly holding on to it.

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  60. this just makes me so sad because april should have been 4minute's month to win, but sistar stole it all with dirty, under handed methods. disgusting.

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    Replies
    1. Stfu you no shame 4nia. Your Poorminute isn't any better, you must know by now about their attempt buy back their physical albums. If you don't, either you chose to ignore it or your fandom lied to you because Cube has been buying back Failminute's albums since Mirror, Mirror when they were going up against danger f(x).

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  61. ^
    Except 4minute was also accused of doing similar thing like this, that is Cube BUYING BACK their physical album sales. It was pretty big too at least I think from what I have seen in intternation community, which I wondered if it got as big as this accusation with these k-netizens but I have seen people on Gaon board talking about their sales very abnormal pattern. So you are in no position to judge this 4nia.

    Both groups were pretty much doing whatever tactic they can to win when they were pitted agaisnt each other, except Sistar obviously came out much better results after the showdown if this accusation was true. And boy am I glad they did because Hyuna & friends has long lost their worth so they can continue tucking themselves over forever.

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  62. ^
    Except 4minute were was also accused of doing similar thing like this, that is Cube BUYING BACK their physical album sales. It was pretty big at least I think from what I have seen in international community, which I wondered if it got as big as this accusation with these netizens but I have seen people on Gaon boards talking about their sales very abnormal pattern. So you are in no position to judge this 4nia.

    Both groups were pretty much doing whatever tactic they can to win when they were pitted against each other, except Sistar obviously came out with much better results after the showdown if this accusation was true. And boy am I glad that Rh y did because Hyuna & friends can continue fucking themselves over forever.

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  63. IF 4minute were the one to win during that April showdown against SISTAR they would have this kind of aftermath even worse tbh. Because they were accused of buying back their albums and that was spread quickly among kpop fans that their sales were abnormal, suddenly selling thousands of copies the day before music shows and then back to hundreds after the week ends. They were even selling a lot during the holiday where supposedly albums wouldn't be selling. In their Mirror Mirror era they were also "caught", actually it was more of of rookie group Brave Girls that started suddenly charting a lot better that the other groups who were promoting at that time including 4minute were playing that battle too, Rainbow and f(x).

    Plus 4minute is in a very shaky situation Hyuna being the only popular member and is slut-shamed a lot, imagine if they got the success SISTAR won they would be bashed a lot more than them I bet you with the already negative sentiments of the group and Hyuna and adding to their buy backs album sales history. They would gotten this netizen hate too but a lot worse.

    Anyways, whether SISTAR manipulated it's their company who did it and people can hate on them but their popularity this year is real. People can question the legitimacy of their winning process but can't at the end result of their fame this year.

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  64. "Debut album being considered only a full album?
    Because SNSD debuted with a single, they didn't release an album accompanied with it (that is can be a single, mini, or full album) until later on with a full album. SISTAR debuted with a single album, that's their first album released hence why I picked on it."

    Debut albums are often regarded towards the full first length album in different places. OR at least, I know they are here in the U.S. A singer can release their debut single or ep/mini album but their Full length album will be considered their debut album since it's their first full length release So that logic can be applied to SNSD's case (since you provided that example)

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  67. Proof? Cube has no money to do that

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  68. I think that somehow, they manipulated the charts. Then, a lot of people noticed the "popularity" of the song, which added to the continuation of the popularity and they could promote for a longer time, which means more popularity and more searches.
    Although I like SISTAR and their sonds Give It To Me, Loving U, How Dare You and SISTAR19, I'll always fail to see how Alone managed to stay popular for so long. Now, to me, the reason why has been told to the world.

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